LAWYER HWANG
INSIDE OUT OUTSIDE IN
Hello,
It's a pleasure to meet you all
I’m LAWYER HWANG, Hwang Yunjeong
As this is our first episode, I'll briefly introduce
what I do
Unlike other Korean lawyers,
I usually handle cases involving foreigners
Once, I counted the number of
countries of my clients
and it was over 30
When I talk to clients from various backgrounds
I felt not only “differences” that I find between us
but also “warmth” that Koreans call “Jeong”
The more I worked with foreign clients
the more I got to yearn for a mature society
that does not push away the “different people”
but rather embraces them
and live in harmony
That’s how I started this channel
Since it's our first episode
I invited a special guest
in a special place surrounded by nature
The guest today
has already been on various TV shows and is quite well-known
And if our guest wasn't fluent in Korean we're going to proceed in English
but fortunately, he speaks Korean fluently
So today’s interview will proceed in Korean
Now, let me introduce the special guest of today
A Hanok architect from Germany,
and the owner of Urban Detail Architecture&Design
Please welcome Hanok architect from Germany, Daniel Tändler
Hello
Nice to meet you, I'm Daniel Tändler
Great to meet you
You run an architecture office
and I heard that you have also done some TV appearances recently
What was the name of the program?
It was < Welcome, First Time Living in Korea? >
< Welcome, First Time Living in Korea? >
I’ll look forward to seeing you on TV
From what I heard, you like plants
So I invited you to this place with nice green views
And what do you think?
It’s great. Greeneries make you feel relaxed
So it's great
Now, let’s talk about
your life
in Korea, Mr. Tändler
Chapter 01
As an attorney who deals with many foreign cases
There are a few questions I often ask
when I consult with my clients
Even though Mr. Tändler isn't my client,
I'll ask him about his visa
I heard that you currently have an F4 visa
F4 visa is a visa for overseas Koreans
I heard that
Your mother immigrated
From South Korea to Germany
(Q. About Mr. Tändler's Korean mother) Would you share a little bit about your mother?
My mother was born in 1947
In Gwangju, Jeolla Province
When she was 18, in 1966,
She went to Germany at a young age
She was educated there, and was working for some years
before planning to come back to Korea
But she met my father
And changed her mind
She stayed in Germany
And eventually
My older brother and I were born in Germany
Your mother met the love of her life in Germany
And that's how you were born
(Q. Visiting Korea at an early age) Did you visit Korea often when you were young?
Mother was very close with her family in Korea
We saw each other quite often
About once every 2 years since I was a kid
So I often visited South Korea in the '80s and the '90s
Are there any memories of the scenery and landscapes?
You recall from your visits?
Yes, Korea was very different from now
The biggest difference is
(South Korea in the 80s~90s) There were so many kids
There were a lot of kids who were my age
Also it wasn't developed as much as it is now
I still remember
When I visited Seoul, my aunt's place was in Mok-dong
Most of the area was a farmland
Oh it was farmlands
Where my aunt lived,
There were no buildings around the area
That's the biggest difference
A lot of development occurred in South Korea
I heard that your maternal grandmother lived together in Germany
(Q. Remembering Mr. Tändler's grandmother) What was she like?
She was wise and full of love
As I remember, she lived with us intermittently
About 6 years' total
There was no family feud at all when we stayed with her
or had any negative memories
So I asked my mother
if I had false memories (about my grandmother)
She replied
"No, she is just as you remember"
If you think about it, living with your mother-in-laws
are not that easy
But according to my mother,
when my grandmother arrived at Germany,
my mother was going through hard time
There were me and my brother, with my father running his own clinic
and my mother were very tired working as well
that she cried over the phone
not knowing what to do
and my grandmother booked a flight that very day
It was a big thing at that time to leave Korea too
When she arrived, she said
Sunmok, this is your house and your family
tell me what I can do
Like that, she put herself behind
It seems she was a very committing person
I also have only good memories with my grandmother
Heartwarming memories
How did you communicate with your grandmother?
My mother, when we were young, said we communicated in Korean
but after she returned to Korea
and came back
our Korean was not very good
So we studied basic conversations like
"See you later, grandma"
and studied at that level
and I think we could still about to communicate with our grandmother
I think the fact that you had some emotional connection,
helped you communicate even if there were some language difficulties
When you hear the word 'grandmother', the feeling of warmth and coziness
must resonate inside you
Now let's talk about what made you decide to move to Korea
Chapter 02
I heard you originally majored in economics in college
(Q. What made you change major from Economics to Architecture?) Is there anything that made you decide to change your major to Architecture?
Yes, there was a moment
When I first started to major in economics,
I had a question, "Is this really my way?"
I had interest, but the problem was
I did not know what to do with my economics major
When I asked myself this,
there was no answer
So I decided, during internships,
I would start thinking about it
I was an intern for a Korean economic research institute
Were you in Korea at that time?
Yes. I came to Korea during school break
I always wanted to come to Korea
But then, after the internship in Korea
I felt it
Economics was not my calling
The reason I chose to work in the economic research institute was because
I was not interested in big companies associated with business management
but I was interested more in social issues
When does the unemployment rate go up, and down
and how does foreign currency affect it
How does a just society form
I was interested in those things
but during the internship, sitting in an office all way
was very frustrating
We had our desks, our partitions,
our lights
In a standardized office
Yes, it was like that
But my colleagues at that time were nice people
I still keep in touch with my mentor there
I still occasionally catch up with them
They were good people
But it just wasn't for me
The work did not suit you?
As you said earlier, I like plants
and outdoor activities
So office life was suffocating
Yes, that make sense
So panic grew from inside,
about how my life would be
I began to consider taking another route
because there were no answers
I asked myself again, 'What do I enjoy?'
There were two things
Nature with plants and other organisms
another was
that I always liked traditional Korean culture
But among all of these
I especially liked Hanok
My second aunt lived in a modernized Hanok in Gwangju
I really liked it
Sleeping beside my cousin on a narrow floor
Gaming and not sleeping
Sleeping on Ondol?
I think it became a good memory
I liked palaces and shrines
I was sad that they were fading away
'I like Hanok, but what can I do with them?' It started that way
I thought I should find out, so I went back to Germany
And searched around, but nothing came out
I looked up 'Korean traditional architectural culture'
There weren't even English materials, let alone German
Untill early 2000s, there were no translated materials
related to Korean architecture
Information about Japanese architecture was abundant
But there weren't any about Korean architecture
I was discouraged and almost gave up
But I looked up 'Hanok'
and there was only one book that popped out
A book titled < Our Hanok >
A book written in Korean
By Mr. Shin Yeong-Hoon of the
Hanok Cultural Center and it was the only book
that was available in a German library
So that book made you who you are right now
< Our Hanok > The book of destiny that was found in Germany
I was so excited, I borrowed the book
And searched the internet
A place called Hanok Cultural Center came up
There was an email address, so I sent an email
The assistant director, Jang Myeong-Hui replied the next day
"I am so glad that a student from a far country like Germany"
"Is interested in Hanok"
I assume they must have been very surprised
And they told me if I got a chance to come to Korea
I should visit the center
So I went on my following school break
The director took a really good care of me
Even took me to the actual site,
When I went to the site where Hanok was being bulit,
The scene of carpenters doing the work combined with the scent of wood
was really beautiful to see
At that moment
I thought "It would be great to have this kind of job"
So that's when I decided
That's when you changed your major?
Yes, but the problem was that
It was very difficult to study Hanok methodically
So assistant director Jang Myeong-Hui said at that time
If I was going to do something related to Hanok
I should study architecture in Germany first
Because I will have to eventually
study architecture anyway in Korea
and as I haven't studied Hanok methodically
The assistant director told me that they help me out when I visit Korea during my school break
So I started studying architecture in Germany
I couldn't transfer, so I had to start all over again
You enrolled again?
I enrolled again
I entered this industry thanks to Hanok
You worked in a Korean architecture firm for about four years
(Q. Differences in working culture between Germany and Korea) How is the working culture different between Germany and Korea?
To be honest,
(Suddenly sullen) I have never worked in Germany
All of my work experience was from Korea
Your first job started in Korea
Yes, from the start I worked in Korea
Of course, knowing basic German culture and
talking with a friend from Germany
There are some differences
Difference Number 1. Germans are rule-followers
You strictly have to follow rules
So when it comes to checking your working hours
The working hours and working overtime
are more strictly followed than Korea
There's that, and
it is true that people working in Germany has more free time
Vacations for example
and in my knowledge, the annual working hours
differ greatly
The working hours in Korea are far longer
And another difference that I noticed is
Difference number 2. Workplace is more organized than flexible
It is different
I cannot say one side is better or worse, but
there is a significant difference in working hours
and the third difference is
Difference number 3. Office hierarchy is more visible in Korea compared to Germany
Those, I think, are the three differences
Which working culture do you think is more suited for you?
In truth, I think I would have a hard time adapting if I return to Germany
The flexibility of Korea suits me well
Adapting to new situations, without having to have everything planned
and being able to push something
We do always finish it too
We do accomplish, Korean people
Germans need to have it all planned for every situation
It gets hard when it does not go according to plan
And it gets tricky
Can I tell you an incident that happened?
What happened?
A few years ago, I received a contact from Germany
It was about an architecture-focused tour
To make it simple, it was an architectural field trip
They told me they needed a native architect
So my role was to go over the program
and gave specialized lectures
A year before coming to Korea, a very specific plan was sent to me
From what time to what time each day
What time to what time in which location
These were all stated in detail
You do not know that will happen the day after,
but they sent it a year ago
Anyway I altered the locations a little bit
changed the details
I told them they should include the traditional architecture
they should go to Jongmyo Shrine and Changdeokgung Palace
and I felt that they began to get worried seven months before
They were getting worried?
I got an email asking
if I made a reservation there,
and who I got in touch with
So they asked you if the planned location was researched beforehand
Even though you have 7 months
So I replied,
I am sorry, but to make a reservation in a museum in Korea,
ticket windows open as early as two months in advance
It's February now,
and I do not think you can get tickets for September 25th at three fifteen
Nobody can
Did they understand?
They did say they understood
and asked me again after two months
Working culture like this, it was
definitely different to
Oh it is quite different
more than I could adapt to
So I think, I fit more in Korea
When I hear you speak, Mr. Tändler
your Korean is really good, and at a glance,
it feels like a native Korean born from Korea speaking
(Q. Any difficult Korean expressions?)
The Chinese characters were a bit hard
Hanja
I studied in Yonsei University Korean Language Institute for a year and three months
I earned levels one through six
But if you don't study Chinese characters at a young age
It seems to slip from your head
Yes, it evaporates immediately
So when I was studying traditional architecture
I had difficulties because of Hanja
Moreover, when I first came here, apart from the expressions,
there was one cultural difference
which did not come from my mother's side
My mother is straightforward for a Korean person
I think it is because she grew accustomed to German lifestyle
For example, when working in Korea
I would introduce myself by going, Hello, I'm Daniel Tändler from something something firm
After learning about the materials,
I will call you back after consideration
When I word it like that,
I thought it meant 'calling back after consideration'
literally
but in Korean terms, it is more like a rejection
Some would call it a euphemistic rejection
That's right
So there were some misunderstandings at the start
I understand, they did say they would call after thinking about it
I think it's more about the culture associated with language rather than the expression alone
In truth, in Korea, when it comes to direct refusal
people often consider it to be rude, thus taking a euphemistic approach
But this could seem like giving them false hope
People could think that "They would call me back"
I did not have such complications regarding human relations,
I knew some would take it personally if spoken too directly
So I had no problem regarding that
but I wasn't aware that it also applied in the work environment
Yes, people would think that clear expressions
would be more present in the workplace
You have lived for a long time in Korea,
when you compare Korea and Germany
(Q. What are the similarities and differences between Korea and Germany?) are there any similarities, or stark differences?
It would be great if you could give us some examples
In my opinion, first of all, Germany and Korea
has a lot of connections when it comes to history
Germany also had been separated into East and West Germany
A history of separation
Germany, unlike Korea, fortunately has been unionized
and I think this common experience has an impact on the national character
that helps in understanding each other
For differences,
Germans are much more straightforward than Koreans
A close Korean friend of mine mentioned
one of the good things about living in Germany was
you did not have to interpret what they were truly saying
Like what it really means, what kind tone it is,
or what intentions they have
Is something they didn't have to do
So in Germany you don't have to worry about the underlying meaning
but in Korea when you hear something in a conversation
we often think "Why did they say it in that way?"
"What do they truly mean?"
I think those stemmed from indirect expressions
This time, I will give you a simpler question
(Q. What is your favorite Korean dish?)
This one is hard, there are many dishes that I like
Is it hard?
First,
My favorite dish made by my mother
Mom's Seaweed soup is the most delicious in the world
My mom’s dishes are so delicious that I don’t eat out much
Oh instead
Even though it is my favorite dish
I saw it somewhere, among the soybean paste stews
Beef brisket soybean paste stew
Yes, I love beef brisket soybean paste stew the most
I did see that that you like it
It was so detailed
There is also seafood soybean paste stew
You might have seen me add egg
to my beef brisket soybean paste stew
I haven’t seen that but you put eggs into it as well
On your soybean paste stew?
I always add a raw egg
In soybean paste stew? Not in tofu stew?
Try putting a raw egg into soybean paste stew
- When it is boiling, you should add the egg and whirl it around - I haven’t tried that before…
I should definitely give it a go
(It's delicious)
You seem to have a better bag of tricks than I do on tasty meals
Let’s continue on with our talk